The relationship, announced this week, is designed to make PCs simpler and more reliable, the companies said. The move is likely to put consumer rights advocates on their guard, however, since both Microsoft and Phoenix are involved in plans to integrate digital rights management (DRM) technology at the operating system and hardware level. DRM is designed to give copyright owners more control over how users make use of software and content, but has been criticised as eroding consumer rights.
A BIOS, or basic input/output system, is the software that ties the operating system to a PC's hardware. Traditionally, it has carried out basic tasks such as hardware and system configuration, and has been standardised and simple enough to allow the installation of alternative operating systems, including Linux.
Phoenix's Core System Software (CSS) is a next-generation BIOS with a more sophisticated integration of operating system and hardware, for example making it easier for system administrators to remotely monitor the hardware configurations of their systems. CSS is designed for non-PC systems such as blade servers and embedded industrial devices as well as traditional desktops.
Microsoft said integration should mean simpler and more reliable computers. "This is a pivotal change for the industry, and it will rapidly advance serviceability, deployment, and management for servers, mobile devices, and desktops," said Microsoft general manager of Windows hardware Tom Phillips, in a statement. "Effectively, Phoenix is creating an entirely new category of system software."
Microsoft said the next-generation BIOS would allow future versions of Windows to manage server blades when they are connected to a system, without needing to be turned on. The BIOS would also allow better control of unauthorised devices connected to a system, Microsoft said.
Phoenix is one of the biggest BIOS providers, its customers including four of the top five PC manufacturers. Its products are also used by consumer electronics makers such as Pioneer, Matsushita, Sony and Toshiba.
Both Microsoft and Phoenix are currently arguing for closer integration of Windows with PC hardware, and DRM integrated throughout. Microsoft is planning to tie Windows DRM features to the hardware platform via its controversial Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) project, formerly known as Palladium. NGSCB is associated with the next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn, which is due in about two years' time.
Phoenix recently said it is touting round a BIOS with built-in DRM technology to major PC manufacturers. In September the company said it had developed a prototype of its Core Management Engine (CME) including DRM from Orbid. The DRM technology would allow content providers to identify which PCs and devices were authorised to play particular files, more effectively controlling content distribution, file-trading and moving software from one machine to another, according to Phoenix.
Phoenix said the DRM-enabled CME was not part of Microsoft's NGSCB, but that the technology was complementary. The CME would allow PC makers to embed digital rights management directly into the hardware, though they would have the option of allowing users to turn it off.
Consumer electronics makers are particularly interested in the technology, according to Phoenix.
Talkback
Bull. To put it mildly. Anyone with half a brain (and NOT in BIOS) will realize that it represents a golden opportunity to lock users into the Windows Longhorn OS and lock OUT Linux. Or anything else Microsoftwants to kill.
Microsoft's plan to integrate the operating system with the BIOS must fail for certain reasons:
1. Microsoft will extend its monopoly into hardware from its dominance in software.
2. It will limit consumer choice as to what OS and programs the computer hardware can run.
3. Other people/organizations (the copyright holders) will be able to decide what consumers can or can't play and use in their computer. And they can charge exorbitant fees and royalties in the process.
4. It will spell the doom of other BIOS makers who don't go with the Microsoft bandwagon, because of Microsoft's dominance of the PC OS market.
5. Linux and open source software as we know it will be extinct, as it will get hemmed in by the Phoenix/Microsoft marriage.
Let's all fight this threat !!
OH, GREAT.
Soon we'll have viruses infecting not only our OS and office suite, but also the computer BIOS.
Thanks Microsoft!
Can't they keep their hands off of anything? I've got a bad feeling about this.
Ok..it takes A LOT to scare me. This scares me.
They are trying to rule the wold but will fail. Most businesses are not renewing PCs as often as they used to, still stuck with old BIOS and old OS. This will give them even more incentive to delay. Also, there are other manufacturers of BIOS, and even somewhere an open-source BIOS (which at the moment needs a minimal hardware BIOS to boot, but could easily be made standalone.
The only thing which will prevent free and open solutions is if motherboard chipset info is not available. After all, the BIOS is TINY compared to Linux, or BSD, or the Gimp, or any of the many other pieces of good open-source software. Remember that the code to handle most features of most chipsets is already available freely under at least GPL and BSD licences, as Linux and *BSD effectively implement BIOS functionality in the kernel (so, gross simplification, hardware interactions can be preemptively multiasked and be 32 or even 64 bit like everything else). They only need the hardware boot loader.
If the chipset manufacturers supply details to M$ but not anyone else, I think they would be liable to legal action in any civilised country. In any case, could M$ control EVERY Taiwanese motherboard manufacturer?
But, the fact that Bill wants us all to run updated X-Boxes (because that is effectively what they will be) is quite depressing, it shows that he has even less competence than I imagined, and the fact that he is going for a totalitarian monopoly shows that he has no morals either. I almost feel sorry for the guy, little technical competence and a greed he can't satisfy, probably a more extreme form of megalomania than Hitler or Saddam.
Gatezooks Batman!
Can Bill be stealing another Apple idea?
Apple has been doing this for years...decades even.
Nobody complained then.
Aah!, but this is Microsoft here,... and yes they will take over the desktop and lock in users and deny access to other viable operating systems and conquer the earth.
Boy am I glad I have Macs! I wouldn't want to be a lame PC user and get hosed by the coming storm.
And I'm really glad that my PC does not have a Phoenix BIOS...Whew! that was close, I thought I would have to ditch my Linux box!
Phoenix is only one of the many global organsations working to extend the facilities brought by the BIOS. Extensive work is even being done on replacing the BIOS itself. The Intel promoted replacement, (currently heavily critisized by a few), coming in the form of the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) which is a lot more flamboyant than the BIOS is an adequate example. So there will always be options on the market.
The market itself has considerable power that is leveraged in its choices. It can choose to adopt and also promote any technology - on both hardware and software levels- or it can choose to reject it.
When it comes to the wire, it is the end user (the buyer) that will make the final decision as to whether they will accept a loss of freedoms or not. It is the market's power of choice that Microsoft is playing with. And this is a time when the market itself is beginning to be more aware of the options it has. Pretty dangerous.
At this point in time, when we see Microsoft's chief Linux strategist, Martin Taylor, warning partners not to be seduced by the higher margin service opportunities offered by commercial Linux platforms, and with the US populace beginning to be more aware of the losses of their privacy post sept 11th, one finds great amusement in watching Microsoft play Russian Roulette before a multiplying Linux that has nothing to loose.
Then there is also the current international backlash against the domination of the global software industry by US corporations - with such concerns being propelled by trust considerations.
Market passions are indeed very expensive things to play with at any point in time. Watching the backlash against Microsoft is going to be an amusing thing to see.
Does anyone remember PanAm or Adnan Kashogi.
An attempt to squelch Linux? Hm... They're not scared of the competition, are they?
just boycot any mobo with that bios.. that takes care of that..
This article is about to get posted on slashdot, hang on to your servers.
"The BIOS would also allow better control of unauthorised devices connected to a system, Microsoft said."
Unlike viruses and worms that slip past Microsoft's Barndoor Security(tm) model, any DEVICES connected to my system are probably MINE. I want my operating system to shut up and accect them.
My guess is Microsoft is hoping our (USA's) loopy, anti-consumer government will pass DMCA-like legislation to require DRM -- thus giving them a legal stranglehold on the desktop.
Wow, that's the last Phoenix bios I buy, shame too, I've been a long time Phoenix customer. Look for those Phoenix-Phree stickers the next time you buy a mainboard or computer. Phoenix's lack of vision will be their undoing.
-craiger
Good news!
Microsoft is trying to take over yet another technology. I'm sure we won't have to worry about new virus problems, NOT! The truth is that Microsoft has never bothered to design an operating system that was secure and not prone to virus problems, after all they have Symantec and other companies to bail them out of these design problems.
The real good news is that savvy IT people will start looking for alternatives to Pheonix. There are some interesting open source BIOS project already out there. With even bad luck we will be able to out business both Microsoft and Pheonix.
The future is not Micro$oft
As Michel Levesque said, Apple has been doing this for years, in fact it is one of the main challenges for anyone trying to clone a Macintosh. I feel a PC BIOS that is more open to OS integration could find some favour in the consumer segment if clear benefits are seen but if it introduces lock in it will have a harder time being adopted in the server segment where manufacturers must support multiple OS's. In the consumer space because Linux is yet to move significant volumes I think lock in will be less of an issue for the average Joe, since he is only considering Mac or Windows for his computer.
someone need to shurdown Microsoft.
I hope some groups of people with good lawyers will sue M$ for all of their money.
bill gate need to shutdown his bussiness.
he wrecks shit in this world :/
my svchost.exe still crashes even i have already installed patches.
The anti-MS sentiments here are pathetic... Microsoft is a business, they make decisions and deals in an attempt to boost market share and profit. All companies do it. As someone else here said, Apple have been doing it for decades - in fact they don't only tie you to a BIOS, but to the hardware and software. Isn't anyone going to moan about them too?
It's fairly obvious other BIOS's are available. If you don't want to use Phoenix, don't. Use something else. Buy a different mobo. Stop using your PC altogether. Whatever - you DO have options, so there is no logical reason to shoot down Microsoft for a business decision they have made.
(FYI, posted on a Mac, I just give credit where credit is due, and Microsoft often isn't given that credit when due.)
I flat out refuse to buy a motherboard with a Windows Integrated Bios. Keep the BIOS away from the OS and don't screw it up cause not all of us choose windows.
Uhhhh ....it´s gonna be messy I´d guess .
I very much have the feeling that if this really gets through then it will be online OS-wars ... many in one corner just accepting that they will have to hand over all their rights to Micro$oft .... the Microsoft crowd in another corner ... & the Linux and everybody else against this idea in another corner .... .
Online-war .... ???
might want to spell authorized as authorized and not authorised.
This is ZDNet.co.uk. In the UK authorized is spelt authorised.
Thats opening the door to windows virus that will kill the system bios.
Horrible Idea!
Re: What Apple does
When Microsoft startes making its own bioses and motherboard then they can feel free to do what they want. Until that point they should NOT be allowed to integrate Windows with any Bios.
First SCO kernel lawsuits... now this? What's next Microsoft Only Hardware to ensure DRM? They are foolish to think there won't be a multi-platform bios that supports the new standards. Besides, wouldn't all of this be in 64-bit penitum 5? In which case, couldn't we emulate using OS X? Tee hee...
Provided versions of the BIOS are made
available which run OS's which are not
from Microsoft, that's fine. Otherwise there
is no way in hell I'd buy such a motherboard.
Ever. Too many choices are removed
by such tight integration with Windows...
will I be forced to upgrade my BIOS everytime
MS wants to implement some new layer of
control over what I do with my machine or the
machines I buy for the lab where I work?
What old hardware wont run with the new mobo?
This is insane.
If people can get around all the MS-Specific stuff in the XBox, I don't see why a Windows Integrated BIOS would stop the same kinds of people.
This may be a slowdown for the OpenSource folk until they can get their software up and running on such a system, but something like this will not stop Linux or BSD or X or Y or Z.
I personally haven't owned a Phoenix BIOS based system in several years, and I will probably avoid them whenever possible in the future.
I beg your pardon, but doesn't this run afoul of the US anti-trust settlement?
Microsoft is a convicted monopolist, but they're not being treated as one. All the more reason I oppose the settlement - it allows Microsoft to pay lip-service to the government, and still allows them to abuse their monopoly power.
This is just another example of it, and this scares me.
And I thought the only advantage DOS had over CP/M was the BIOS was located with the hardware.
Now it looks like they are the same.
R.E: Matthew Broersma
You make it sound like Microsoft are forcefully taking over Phoenix, taking their coders hostage at gunpoint and forcing them to integrate Windows components into it.
Back in reality, this is a business deal between two consenting parties. They can do whatever the hell they want together because it is a mutual deal.
We are borg; you are fud. Our daily mantra here at microbasicinputos we will own everything. we will control mindshare. we will have sex with your wives and pubescent daughters and your chiwawas if they're groomed properly.
you are fud (fucked up (open-source) developers). You will suck our cox you communist faggots. we are microbasicinputos. Our business is your defeat. Really. It is our mantra. You faggots.
I do not like this one bit at all.
Microsoft is being very monopolisitc. Microsoft already has a monopoly. We all know that Monopolies are clearly against the law. Technically, Microsoft's monopoly should've been stopped long ago.
I really hope that someone who can put a stop to this realizes that Microsoft is going for a complete monopoly over the computer market and puts a stop to it.
If I buy the hardware and I buy the software, I would be able to use it as I desire as long as I'm not using to break any laws. This just plain makes me mad. It seems that Microsoft is desiring to know more and more everyday about what you do on your computer and it appears that what they really want it to be able to remotely control your computer. This would be an invasion of privacy.
If Micro$haft keeps pulling these stunts, and does not back off, Windows XP will be the last version of Windows I ever buy. That is if they don't become monopolisitc and take over the entire computing world. If this trend continues with Microsoft, I can see many switching over to Macs and more software then being developed for the Mac. I've also noticed a recent growth of people interested in Linux. I plan on learning Linux very soon myself to hopefully get away from the evil monopoly known as Microsoft.
I believe, Microsoft will not be able to do such a thing. Firstly, you'd have a CLEAR monopoly, second, you'd have people with rifles ready to harass Microsoft, and third, rioting would cost Gates a small fortune if he controlled the computer industry.
I would just like to know if when Microsoft says that this will help prevent unauthorized equipment being added to my network do they mean unauthorized by me or them?!
Time to develop an open-source hardware platform that uses FPGA's and a reasonably fast cpu and release it into the world so that when all motehrboards are pheonix/microsoft borg units, we can buy these open source "motherboards" that can run linux and other OS's. Good idea to develop this hardware so that it can't be classified as a true motherboard (it would then officially require DRM cpapbility, but even if so, you could make that DRM have an optionally "switched off" mode to it. The thing is, the current design and deffinition of a motherboard could probabbly change if you used future technology (seria (usb, firewire, network )l verses prallel PCI busses, okay, you would need memory slots, and probablly an agp slot). but, the important thing is that open hardware must be desinged and released into the wild, otherwise, motherboard hardware design will eventually get so black-box, that there will be nobody around exept for micro$ft and pheonix, and we all will use windows and windows compiler tools forever, pay mcirosoft to sell our own software we write, (plus give bill all our money when we buy sofware or use software or the internet)
Oh.. right.. so another bribe underway.
Whats next, cpu's which only run windows as well?!
i guess its true that with enough evil and money, someone can do whatever they want..
This stinks. What about the settlement reach regarding MS's antitrust behavior?
I say we avoid Phoenix-based hardware like the plague; afterall, that's what they're introducing!
This is the most selfish thing I heard since I found out that pheonixnet bioses are spyware.
To put it simply I am considering my position in using windows as the operating system I use when building Pc's for my customers. Surely its time for microsoft to die?
It's not complicated that problem its what we call controling peoples.There is law for liberty of freedom so microsoft the day you will control everything be aware that peoples will and i mean it boycott your OS and materials.
The Apple model is actually different. They provide the ROM, motherboard (hardware) and OS. That is not the same as having separate companies taking a product that is not targeted to a specific application (i.e. MS OS) and hijacking that product from another company so that it can no longer be used in the application for which it originally was viable. Quite different! Second point: making the OS not boot on another compay's product is not the same as blocking another company's OS from booting on it. There are Linux variations that can and have been installed on Mac hardware. The assertion that this is the same as what Apple has been doing has no basis and demonstrates a lack of understanding.
*sniff sniff* I smell IBM and MCA here..wonder if MS will figure it out in time or ....
What Microsoft and Phoenix are doing is very similar to what Apple did, that is tie the OS and the BIOS together as the Mac OS and the Apple ROM were tied together. Sure, the current situation is coming from separate companies, but the result is the same, making the computer hardware and OS a more integrated and proprietary combination. The result is the same, a closed and proprietary architecture in the PC market.
Not recognizing that the Apple ROM and PC BIOS chips are similar components demonstrates lack of understanding.
Whatever Microsoft and Phoenix devise will be a proprietary synergy between OS and hardware just as the Mac OS and Apple ROM represented and proprietary synergy.
I predict that the rest of the industry will produce alternatives to whatever MS and Phoenix cook up. Windows machines might become a proprietary platform consisting of hardware and OS, but the open nature of the current PCs will continue in some form or another. Just as the original PC BIOS was clean-roon edngineered, the Phoenix BIOS of the future will also be cracked and re-engineered with extensions that keep it open. The industry is to diverse for this not to happen. Consumer PCs may become closed as the Mac is/was, but the PC industry will produce open standards hardware as well.
Oh fuck. That thing sucks. Windows was OK for me before Windows XP came to spy us and old and GOOD Windows 95 came to its end. Windows XP sucks, Microsoft sucks, Windows software developers suck. AND: Everybody who works free for bringing choice to your computer :-D (ty, Lindows.com for good slogan!) is very good people in these dark ages of Windows XP.
Firstly, If Microsoft were an actual monopoly like some folks sem to think, then there would be no Apple or Linux.
Secondly, Phoenix is not the only BIOS manufaturer on the market.
Thirdly, if two companies want to work together on the same project, and integrate one companies product into another, then who are we to stop them. Do we know that this PROPOSED project will result in anything viable? Maybe it will be too costly to produce? We will have to wait and see.
And finally, if you don't like what Microsoft (and/or Phoenix) is or does, then do not support them. Don't purchase their products, do not use their products, and do not reccomend their products. Just quit yer bitchen about Microsoft. If you don't like it, create your own OS, and market it yourself. You could become the next Bill Gates. I live in a free country, in a free world. If I want to, I can change that world, which is what Bill Gates has done with Microsoft. He took a dream of his, and made it a reality. He took on big blue and beat them, and for that he is a bad person? I just don't understand how some of you can cry all day about Microsoft and Bill Gates, and yet you don't do anything more noticable to stop it other than crying about it like a bunch of babies. you still purchase their products, and still use their software. Your friends and families are all using Windows, yet you don't stop them.
If you don't like Microsoft or Bill Gates, then do something other than cry about it......
You morons act like you don't have a choice. Even worse you're too stupid to see Apple already does the same thing... and it equals stability.
This *cannot* be allowed to happen. It constitutes an excess of authority at best. In theory at least, Microsoft does not have a monopoly on operating systems; but, unless you buy a Mac or build your own system, the chances are that you will get Windows forced down your throat. And Microsoft get to count that as a sale of Windows, even though you have no use for it. If they sell a million PCs ready-made with Windows, but 600 000 people replace it with Linux {far fetched, but bear with me to the end of the analogy}, then Microsoft can still say they have sold a million copies of Windows; and those six hundred thousand Linux users are still seen to be in a minority *even although* they actually outnumber Windows users by 1.5 to 1!
Microsoft will use these bogus figures to convince those who know no better that their software is more popular than it really is. Other hardware vendors may end up locked into similar deals if Microsoft decides the Phoenix experiment has worked.
Alternatively, Phoenix will get trashed. Though I'm more an AMIbios person myself, I can't see one fewer BIOS supplier being good for anybody. The least that will happen is that the price of motherboards will go up.
Maybe it's time Linux users made a concerted effor to notify Microsoft that they are *not* registering Windows on their PCs. {After all, it's not as though we have anything to fear from the Licencing Stasi if they decide to pay a visit}.
The only difference I see between Apple doing this and MS is that apple owns both the hardware and software (and the rights to them)
MS owns the rights to Windows and ?? what pc ??
I truly think that if ms wants to have an operating system that works with certain hardware, then let them make there own computer platform and leave the PC industry to companies like Dell, HP, IBM, and other companies. We could all use Linux, Lindows, BeOS, etc.
But leave it to microsoft to clone an operating system, call it their own and then clone a computer system and do the same. I really don't expect much in the way of inginuity from that company anyway.
I think Robin Williams said it best on an HBO stand-up. <Bill Gates Voice>"Ha! Monopoly... I'm not trying to create a monopoly, I'm trying to rule the f*****g world."</Bill Gates Voice>
I should also add that my other statement really was a quote and I apologise for the profanity. I also have an opinion on this however. As much as I would like to go against MS and aside from all my Mac hatred. Copying Apple is probably the best thing they can do to remain competitive and help create and later alleviate security breaches, all we can hope for in the long run is a more stable platform and hopefully less BSOD's. 50/50
The difference being that the software and the hardware for Macs has always been developed by one company. PCs, however, were created from the beginning to be open, and run different operating systems, i.e. DOS, CP/M, later Novell Netware, Unix, Windows on DOS, etc.
Microsoft should just say, "We are building our own computers that will be tightly integrated with our operating system, and which will be absolutely secure."
Then we can all have a good laugh, and get back to doing work on whatever platform currently is available that best fits our needs.
I think Windows in the BIOS is a great idea. Work has started to ingetrate Linux into the BIOS as well, as a google search would show.