Gateway, meanwhile, offers a $499 (after rebate) desktop with a competitive configuration to the $599 Mac mini, but it also comes with a 17-inch monitor, a keyboard and mouse.
When upgrading the mini, its price gap with the PC widens.
The $499, 1.25GHz mini, when given 512MB of RAM, an 80GB hard drive and a DVD-burning SuperDrive, as well as a keyboard and mouse, comes to $782. The $599 mini, when receiving the same RAM, SuperDrive and peripheral upgrades (it already comes with an 80GB drive), lists for $832.
In the UK, the two Minis will cost £339 and £398 respectively.
In one example of a similarly outfitted Windows PC, an HP Compaq Presario SR1000Z with an AMD Sempron 3000+, 512MB of RAM, an 80GB drive and a DVD burner comes to $519, before a $50 rebate, according to HPShopping.com. Upgrading the Presario to an Athlon XP 3200+ processor adds $30, bringing the price to $549 before the discount, while adding an Nvidia GeForce FX 5100 graphics card bumps it up another $70 to $619, before the rebate. Similar Intel processor systems from HP and other brand names such as Dell and Gateway were within about $50 of the Presario, before rebates.
When upgraded, the Mac mini also begins to brush up against budget wireless notebooks.
Apple will likely argue that many mini buyers already have keyboards and extra monitors on hand. But for those customers looking for a complete package, PCs from companies such as HP also have the advantage of being available in bundles with monitors.
Both Baker and Kay believe that leaving out the input devices could work in the company's favour, or at least not hurt it, because many buyers will be picking up the unit as a second, third or fourth PC. It also comes with Apple software, which often receives raves from people who use it. Apple software and machines have also been far less susceptible to viruses, noted Glaskowsky.
"A lot of PC users who are tired of giving tech support to friends and family members will simply have them go out and get an Apple mini. At the same time, those who have never used OS X but are intrigued by it are finding that the barrier to entry -- cost -- has been lifted," wrote Anand Shimpi, editor-in-chief of AnandTech, an online review and benchmarking site.
Apple advocates will also probably argue that the Power processor at the heart of the unit is better than the chips from Intel and AMD. This is a tough argument. First, few benchmarks allow for comparing Power chips to x86 chips, said Kevin Krewell, editor-in-chief of the Microprocessor Report. Second, bargain consumers won't care.
"If I were to ballpark a comparison between the G4 1.25 and an x86 chip, I'd say that it would be slower than any of the midrange x86 CPUs used today (Athlon 64 3000+, Pentium 4 2.8GHz), but it would be competitive with the low-end Celerons," Shimpi wrote. "It's quite tough to draw a direct comparison between the G4 and the current generation x86 architectures. That being said, I'd say it would be competitive with anything found in similarly priced Dell systems."
In the end, the success or failure of the product may not be judged by actual sales. The Mac mini's main appeal for Apple may turn out to be its use as bait to lure people into Apple stores. Sales reps will then try to upsell them to other models, speculated Kay.
"Overall, retail purchasers should respond to the Mac mini, flaws and all," Tom King, a technology analyst, wrote in an e-mail. "This should allow fine-tuning of this new product line. It could also open the door to nice 'iPod mini + Mac mini' marketing and sales opportunities, especially with the large discounters like Target, Kmart, Wal-Mart and others."
At least one analyst said it may encourage switching.
"We believe the Mac mini will increase the percentage of iPod-toting Windows users who purchase a Mac by almost threefold," said Charles Wolf, an analyst at Needham and Co.
Talkback
You fail to mention the price of the software that is an important part of the Mac mini. This software is not available on the computers which were compared.
If you start adding the 'cost of the extras' then you've totally missed the point of the pint sized Mac mini.
It comes with iLife 05 and all you need to shell out for is the iWorks set at about £49
If you think you need the extra ram, and a big monitor and..and...and. then THE Mac mini IS NOT FOR YOU.
It's like saying, "yes the Toyota Yaris is cheap, but by the time I fit a towbar, tubo, high lift cam, bigger wheels and a caravan so I can fit my whole family in, it gets too expensive."
It (as stated in the keynote speech) is aimed at people who want a cheap, 2nd 3rd or 4th Mac for their house, or for those who wish to swap their dull beige box for a smart shiny one that 'just works'.
I think the public has been duped with PC prices. Especially with so called "rebates". Those rebates you talk of take about 2 months before you get your money back. Sometimes you don't get your money back because the company can claim you didn't submit the correct forms or the right upc code from the box. This whole scam is being investigated by several states. I doubt if it will last any longer. Once you take out the illusion of savings, the mac mini is very attractive.
PS. what are no viruses or spyware or trojan horses worth?
And you have to add the point that Macs are mainly for people SWITCHING fro PCs so they'll have a monitor, keyboard and mouse already and the required adaptors aren't that expensive. When you take what can be considered by most to be 'the facts' as they've come from an important sounding company you start to cloud the important things.
I'm after one as soon as it comes out.
Does the Presario come with Hi-Definition editing software? Does the Presario have Firewire? How big is the case for the Presario? Don't forget to include virus protection cost as well to any Windows PC since you cannot connect anything running Windows to the internet without it.
Mac mini looks like an Apple's strategic trial version of Mac family for newcomers. If you are a PC user you can share the display, keyboard and mouse between Mac mini and PC by adding just a small KVM switch box. I don't know whether your experience will be fantastic or not, at least it's worth trying. My concern is its thermal design. No one wants to "burn" literally his CD-RW.
Trying going to Apple's site and look for the Nec Monitor or go here: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71505/wo/nq5kpjREwGfU2Swkl5G1IHzBDGT/2.0.11.1.0.6.25.7.11.2.3
Mac bashers love to get it wrong. There is no software, I can't take my work home, etc., etc. etc. What we mac users don't take home is our viruses, our spyware, and the worms. Macs don't get them! It is an extremely stable Unix based environment. It is 1000% better than OS 9 a few years back.
We have M$ Office. Apple makes integrated programs that work. You can't get it right and sell ads without bashing.
Actually, this is probably targeted at PC users, who have older machines, already have mice, keyboard and a monitor! Not to mention that keyboards and mice can be had for $50 or less for both! So, its actually a great deal for PC users anyway....$650 (plus tax).
Did you add firewire and a software suite compareable to ilife to the pc to match the mac mini's specs in you cost comparison?
The MAJOR flaw in this comparison is the CPU. A 1.25/1.42 GHz G4 absolutely dusts any Celeron. If the Wintel comparo-box had a 2.8-3.2 GHz Pentium 4 then it wouled be equivalent - but then that would make the prices closer (or the Mini even lower costs - and that wouldn't be the story/message you were trying to send...
I just wanted to say that the price/value comparison is kind of moot when it comes to these products because of their beautiful design. Apple has already proven that with the iPod, which has many lower priced competitors now, but STILL dominates the portable MP3 player market. I think Apple has discovered the secret of luring new customers, which truly is about design/appearance now. One can really compare it to car shopping, where it has been shown that the styling of the car is at least as important as the performance/price for most car buyers. If we truly bought items based on their performance and price alone, the iPod would not be the most popular MP3 player in the world today.
Do the PC's you price compare to the Mac Mini have a graphics chip or "built-in" graphics? If they have built-in graphics then the performance of the computer will be slower than the Mini if the CPUs are equal.
I wanted to check this out on the low cost Dell advertised at the top right of the story page, and got this:
Sorry, The page you requested may no longer exist on Dell.com
It is absurd to compare this to a pc. the only thing that it shares with a pc is what's inside. the concept behind it is to make a computer that isn't a computer but is a consumer device like the ipod. this is not a computer for a desk. this is a computer that you attach to your stereo system or your tv or put in your kitchen or bedside table. the entire "i just need to do what i need to do with my computer and if it gets it done, that's fine," is completely moot on a consumer device. People instead ask, "will it be easy to use? will it fit in where i want to put it? does it look nice? Will I be able to do neat things more easily?"
Imagine having this, a computer smaller than an xBox, on top of your high def tv. you flip TV video on your remote and suddenly, because of how intuitive and integrated all of apple's software is, you are doing a video chat with your friend on your tv! It's almost like he's in the room with you!. Better yet, you pull up all your music on the screen via itunes and make playlists or even purchase new music, all sitting on your couch with your wireless keyboard. Use it as a dvd player, show a slide show. All this always available right at your fingertips! You can receive emailed videos and play them on the big screen or watch them on the little lcd in your kitchen or on the table by your couch. This liberates the computer to be the device that it always had the potential to be for everyone but that it always felt like a too much of a drag to implement. And because it doesn't ship with any extras, people can add the extras that suit their needs. Besides, there are websites that are already offering a free keyboard and mouse with every mac mini order. Apple is the only one who makes software easy enough so that this has the potential to catch on in a huge way. And as they say, once you go mac, you never go back. I don't know a single person who has spent extensive time using Mac OS X who doesn't prefer it to Windows.
Yes, the technology to do this has been around for years. yes, individuals have done it before. But i defy you to find me a successful consumer device that requires a tech saavy person to make it effective.
Apple did with the ipod and music, apple is once again doing with the computer - bringing in the next evolution of computing and creating an entirely new market.
Forget the comparative costs of add-ons, etc. There's a huge market of folks who have simply gotten disgusted by and frustrated with the Microsoft world (viruses, spyware, Windows taking control,and so forth) and are looking for an escape.
The mini Mac gives them an easy and affordable way to try the Mac, to switch to it. Simply spend the $500 and hook up their current keyboard, mouse, and monitor and they're all set!!
They'll fall in love with the Mac, discover how well it works, how stable & headache free it is, and become Mac converts. And you know the zealotry of the converted!
They'll start promoting it with their friends, neighbors, and will eventually buy iBooks and higher end Macs. This is the beginning of an easy tripling or quadrupling of the Mac share of the computer market.
I have an original G-4 400 mhz. I'm considering upgrading with a faster card and hard drive. The mini-mac is a perfect way to upgrade, without having to settle for the rest of the old technology in the box. Plus it has newer software. Where can I go wrong in buying the new mini?
Don't forget to add in the price difference for XP Pro to the Windows machines. The Mac Mini comes with Mac OS X Panther, not a stripped down version of the OS like XP Home Edition.
I went over to HP's page to check this mythical Compaq Presario you were talking about. I couldn't manage to pull it off. The only way I could get $389 was to just have a CD-RW drive and no DVD. This is "comparable?"
But after this, you just start spouting numbers.
You configure the Presario with a $70 NVidia Geforce 5100.
Hello? Anybody home? Just a few paragraphs before, you mentioned that the Mac mini came with a graphics card. You didn't think that, in order to make the machines "comparable", you might want to put to a graphics card into the PC?! After all, that's 70% of your price difference right there.
Standard PC Columnist technique: Claim to be making comparisons but leave out things. On the software side, the Mac mini comes with Quicken. Did you include that? Nope. Why? Because if you added in Quicken and your $70 graphics card, it would have thrown off your whole argument that PCs are still cheaper.
Come on, guys!
Its way too cheap and I have no doubt as others have expressed in this topic that it may just be the thing to get droves of Wintels users to switch.
I hope not. Quite frankly im happy with apple having a small market share. I like the fact that hackers and the like don't write viruses for macs or that generally its a much safer environment with which to access the Internet.
I say to all those mac zealots out there...please keep it our little secret.
You fail to compare the bundled software of the Mac mini versus the PC units. The low-end PCs I've seen: eMachines, Gateway, and HP - have inferior, advertisement-ridden, and often redundant software when compared with the Mac bundle.
The $100 DVD burner is a steal - you can do DV video editing and DVD creation on very well thought out software that's bundled with every (!) Mac mini. This grade of software, especially for the price, does not exist on Windows.
Software, Software, Software
Just as the success of a restaurant greatly depend on location, today the success of a computer maker greatly depend on the software it provides. The cost of iLife ’05 alone could cost as much as $499 when you get similar software in Windows. Not to mention the antivirus software and the time which will be invested in cleaning out spy wares.
I'm not sure how Apple is going to market the Mac Mini, but I really hope they will focus on what the consumer can do with it (Os X and iLife) in their advertisements, a thing Apple's been a bit reluctant to do in the past.
It's about time that the technology press starts to realise that it's not about boxes anymore or what's in it, but what these boxes enable you to do, the experience. Why don't I ever see a technology review of the Sony Playstation where the processor and RAM are discussed, compared to Microsoft's Xbox?
The average consumer does not ask what type of engine is in a kitchen blender upon purchase; they want to know what it does and how well it does it. And yes, it helps if it looks nice as well... That's where we have to see the new Mac Mini in my opinion.
It would be great if you could show new products and their functionality to consumers, ask about their opinion and write great articles on that (or even better, have the consumer write the article). Now there's something I'd love to read about, the consumer's opinion. Maybe an idea for ZDNet, consumer blogging...?
Just and idea...
Cheers
The Mac Mini has just open the way for savings of thousands of pounds (or dollars) for small businesses or schools!
Software:
1. all major applications have equivalent versions on both PC and Mac platforms or can import/export file format
2. OpenSource software will usually run better on a Mac, because of its Unix heart and safe web browsing.
3. Mac 'default' software is GREAT, from the OS itself (burning CDs, search, utilities) to iLife. Excelent value.
Networking:
1. Mac is stable. God knows how many things go wrong in peer sharing or NT domain, or Internet connecting, on a Windows PC. How much time I spend in my consultant job troubleshooting when I should move the clients move forward...
2. The range of networking capability out of the box from the Mac platform is second to none. It is also very easy to setup
3. Best of all, if you have a Windows server, it will integrate easily. If you have (or plan to purchase) a Mac server, then you're in for a treat, with all the capabilities the server has. A school can secure and control a Mac client nuch more easily than a Windows PC.
Hardware:
1. It's integrated. Less problems with cards, drivers, and whatever regularly plagues a PC user. It's got everything a user would need out of the box.
2. It's small. Now THAT is so important for some small businesses or schools.
3. It's cheap. Not only you can use it as a user PC, you can get one as a small file server, print server, basic intranet server, etc. You can even use it as departmental Firewall, Proxy server, etc. What a great idea! Once configured, you don't need mouse, keyboard, or monitor.
It is now in my primary list of recommendations for clients!
Having owned an original g4-350mz from the first day it reached the store, I have been looking to replace it for the last 2 years. Each time I went to the store to buy a new mac, I decide that the time was not right (OS x just announced, G5 just announced new imac etc). Given the fact that the Mac mini will cost about 970$ canadian tax in, I can now get a new mac (with os x.3.1) and wait for the G5 Powerbook. I am hoping that it (G5lpowerbook) wiil be announced in September given that IBM announce a 3V g5 chip last month.
As is often the case, press people are way offline in their opinion. Why couldn't they do more exhaustive research and more objective comparisons, I just can't understand. Get a life, press people!
Where did these famous analysts find a "similar PC" from Dell or HP? All I can find at the Dell webpage is 10 kilos of ugly black plastic for roughly the same price as the Mac Mini Unless you are absolutely desperately strapped for cash, or you need something to warm your feet, there is just no comparison between the two.
For another comparison, I checked out the HP "Thin Clients" at www.dabs.com. Small, but bigger than the Mac Mini. For less money than the MacMini you get 733MHz processor, 128 KB RAM, no harddisk, nothing. For a decent processor, but still slower than the Mac Mini, no harddisk, no support for large screens, you pay hundred pound more than for the Mac Mini. Both the Citrix and Microsoft clients run fine on a Mac with a quarter of the speed of the Mac Mini, with support for 1920 x 1200 screens if that is what you need.
And when the article says "less susceptible to viruses", the reality is that not one single Macintosh has caught any of the nasties that attack Windows PCs.
I have a 3.02HT P4 with a 256 graphics card, 1 gig of ram and an 80 gig hard drive on a network with a 1ghtz g4 imac with 768 megs of ram, a 40 gig drive, and its standard integrated graphics chip. I recently puchased the original halo and installed it on both computers configured the same. The pc performed so poorly I could barely play. The mac performed flawlessly. Also, my picture software works better on the mac. Anytime I need a computer I always go for the mac first. Don't forget macs also dont crash or get viruses. I would recommend a mac to anyone, whether it is a first computer or a replacement for a pc. I think the article does a disservice to people interested in a mac mini. P.S. I only have a pc for running my pc only business software.
What would really make it a selling point is if Apple included OpenOffice.org (there is an OS X PPC version and has been for a while). Then, Apple could claim, correctly, that their solution is not only relatively inexpensive, but is "Microsoft Office compatible" out of the box, with no further additions!
Now, were Apple to do this, they'd sell 'em like hotcakes. Every college student who has to submit papers in MS Office XP formats would have a Mac mini...within weeks. With OpenOffice, it'd be affordable for them, too. Good used 19" monitors can be had for less than $100--sometimes considerably less. USB keyboards and mice would add another $25. Raising the DRAM to 512MB (the minimum for OS X, in my experience) would be another $80. You are now at a price point of $499 + $100 + $80, which is $679. That's pretty damned good. Adding MS Office is another $150 at student rates, $200 for everyone else.
OpenOffice.org is the one piece to this puzzle that Apple missed. Why Apple failed to see this, I have no idea.
Here in the UK, the Mac mini is priced at £339. I just added up the price of the software that it comes with (OS X, Appleworks & iLife), and it comes to £213. Enough said. I am off to the Apple store. :-)
<<Here in the UK, the Mac mini is priced at £339. I just added up the price of the software that it comes with (OS X, Appleworks & iLife), and it comes to £213. Enough said. I am off to the Apple store. :-) >>
Hey, I've got twenty matches that I'll sell you for £213, yet if I sell you a box of matches (containing the same 20 matches and an ignition strip) I will charge you £339! Wow I offer GREAT value! Can't wait to have your money in my wallet!
Man your comparisons won't work- how many years are you in this business?? Hello software and look at your pc comparisons ?? pls be moooore logical and transparent!! mac wins.
>> Hey, I've got twenty matches that I'll sell you for £213, ... Can't wait to have your money in my wallet!
Hmm, some people just suffer from verbal diarrhea...