No refunds from Toshiba
Toshiba did not return our calls seeking to clarify its policy on naked PCs, and whether it would offer a refund on Windows software.
We had the following conversation with its customer call centre, which clarified that it would sell only PCs with Windows.
ZDNet: I just want a notebook without Windows. Can you supply me one without Windows?
Toshiba: I can't I'm afraid. It's always going to be pre-installed.
It's got to have Windows?
Yes.
If I'm paying for Windows, can I get a refund on that? I'm not going to use it.
Obviously the Windows, it's sold at a certain price. The price is considerate of the fact it comes with the operating system pre-installed.
But I'm not going to use it. I'm going to turn down the licensing agreement for it.
Yeah. There's no way of sending the machine with different specs, I'm afraid.
OK, but can I get a refund from you for not using Windows?
Erm, no you wouldn't be able to, I'm afraid.
Right. So even though I'm not using it I've still got to take it and I can't get any money back?
I'm afraid we only sell the machines as they are.
OK, so it's take XP or Vista basically.
That's the case, I'm afraid.
Talkback
Nice to see this subject being aired. But even if you want an MS OS they invariably bundle it with all sorts of rubbish that runs on startup, just look at he systray! You are better off installing it yourself!
In the past I have ordered pc's with no OS from Dell. It took a little persistence but eventually by threatening to take my order else where they buckled. This was an order for about 30 Optiplex desktops. The reason why I wanted they PC without Windows was the company I worked for had an enterprise agreement with Microsoft so we did not want Windows XP Pro OEM on there.
If there's a reasonable amount of money on the table you might be surprised what a sales person is willing to do.
The Linux Emporium in the UK (www.linuxemporium.co.uk) sell a wide range of IBM/Lenovo laptops, preinstalled with Ubuntu.
You can also buy one with Linux pre-installed.
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14
Here is the link for a naked pc.
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14
This post has been removed by a moderator.
Hi anyone interested in naked PC's or with Linux from Fujitsu Siemens can contact us @ emaack.com
This article sites 'production line diversions' as being a main reason manufacturers wouldn't want to sell a 'naked pc'. This sounds like a fancy way of saying they are giving in to pressure from Microsoft. Honestly though, how could it possibly cost them extra money to *remove* a step in their system-building pipeline (installing the OS)? I built my last 2 PCs myself and I'll tell you that if I didn't bother to install the OS, I would have been done a lot quicker and if I was getting paid per hour to do this for someone, I would certainly charge them less too. I'm rather confused.
Dell does ship systems with linux as well as systems with nothing installed.
Nothing installed
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1
Linux Preinstalled
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
Some choose to pass on the spiff as a rebate. The OS is a piece part to them and they have it factored into their cost, so when they say it costs them more, it could, but it would just be the cost of the rebate process and the amount they make on the OS as a piece part.
I've been buying low power usage VIA motherboards from Mini-Itx and they are easy about not shipping Windows with their parts. On the other hand, I actually have to build these things. However, its worth it to get 1,500 Bogus Mips in a 20 watt box 1/10th the volume of a normal pizza box.
This post has been removed by a moderator.
The story clearly says that Dell do sell Linux desktops but only in the US. Your link is to Dell US. So what's your point?
Richard's story clearly says that Dell sells Linux boxes in the US, your links are to Dell.com ie. Dell US. So what's your point?
The emaack.com website has no links anywhere leading to Linux-pre-installed PC offerings. If I enter the simple search term 'Linux PC' in its search box it again leads to nowhere.
If somebody wants to offer Linux PCs they should clearly say so on their website and not hide it!
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14
Thank you for your link. Amon others, the http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/ lists Systemax.com which uses misco.co.uk as a PC distributor. Now, if I search on Misco for e.g. 'Linspire', it then at first delivers some results. However, as soon as I click on the results, it leads to Windows Vista PCs!
Hence, it doesn't seem to be true when lxer.com makes the following claim:
"The company doesn't count if they advertise Linux, then spam you with MS Windows."
because I am being spammed with MS Windows offerings.
If manufacturers state that they hardly ever sell systems without pre-installed Windows then doesn't that mean that large organizations (including those that are fueled by tax money) have made paying double part of their company policy?
Meaning, that, given the volume purchased, it is possible to purchase customized configurations. That includes almost anything you want, or not want. So why hasn't anyone come up with the idea to purchase systems without pre-installed Windows? Why waste a default price cut? Because chances are high that the moment the systems are delivered they'll get re-installed with some company image backed up by an Enterprise license. Who needs an OEM license then? Heck, you can even get them pre-installed with your own company image.
Normally that should mean that the statistics of the manufacturers should show that a large enough percentage of systems in purchased without a pre-installed Windows (the OEM version). Given that most large suppliers have a short list of preferred suppliers that usually includes the Top 5 directly or indirectly. But because manufacturers say that the purchase of naked PC's doesn;t even register that can only mean that plenty of budget has been burned on unused OEM licenses. Or the statistics don't add up. Or prices are artificial.
Think about this for a while. Estimate the number of systems purchased in large volumes over the years and imagine what kind of impact that might have had on tax money saved and/or jobs saved.
It does add up.
Either manufacturer statistics only show their best interest and clearly no longer can be trusted or a lot of large organizations should have a serious talk with whomever negotiates their purchases. Perhaps ask their money back or change preferred supplier.
In short, it most likely boils down to a self fulfilling prophecy most simply take for granted. And thus pay the price for it.
This post has been removed by a moderator.