UK companies see perils in software patents

Daily Newsletters

Sign up to ZDNet UK's daily newsletter.

Topics

CIII

NEWS

The government's claim that patents protect innovation was questioned by industry experts at a meeting on Tuesday where the proposed EU software patent directive was discussed.

Lord Sainsbury, the minister for science and innovation, and the UK Patent Office (UKPO) heard evidence that many companies have been successfully protecting their work through copyright laws, and are unhappy about the prospect of having to apply for patents on software they develop.

The UKPO has for a long time claimed that the Computer Implemented Inventions Directive is necessary in many industries, such as the machine tool sector.

In 2001, secretary of state for trade and industry Patricia Hewitt said: "Our key principle is that patents should be for technological innovations. So a program for a new machine tool should be patentable but a non-technological innovation, such as grammar-checking software for a word-processor, should not be."

Since 2001 the Patent Office has frequently said that an invention can only be patented if it makes a "technical contribution", such as the software which controls a physical object, rather than software which automates business methods. It also claims that the directive merely clarifies the status quo.

But yesterday at the patent meeting, Julian Todd, a machine tool programmer, said that few UK machine tool companies have taken out patents to date, but he is concerned that this may now be a costly necessity due to the directive.

"Although your current law says all this is patentable, patents are not used in this sector -- if you check out the companies in Britain you won't find patents," said Todd. "We're pretty sure that patents will start to be introduced in this sector."

"The way we work is we develop an idea and others copy it and we have to keep working to keep ahead of competition. If we were able to patent we would be able to protect lack of innovation and development, because we would have no competitors. All the money we spend on R&D, we could [need to] sink into lawyers," Todd added.

One of the few UK machine tool companies that has started using patents is Delcam, although according to a press release from 2002 this was done reluctantly.

"Traditionally, Delcam has relied on copyright to protect our innovative intellectual property but we have started to apply for patents in response to the unwelcome trend, particularly in the USA, to seek patents for any innovative processes," said Delcam in the release. "This is clearly an increased expense but one we now feel we must selectively embrace to ensure that we enjoy the benefits of our developments."

Lord Sainsbury responded that American companies have patents and that patent law contains the trade-off that to protect innovation it is necessary to temporarily stop other companies from innovating.

In response to a further question from Todd on whether the UKPO had spoken to UK companies about this issue, Peter Hayward, a director at the UKPO, admitted that it hadn't.

"We spoke to American companies," said Hayward.

Todd told ZDNet UK on Wednesday that he is following up his question with a letter to Lord Sainsbury. He is concerned that the European change in patent law will allow US software companies, which already have many patents, to out-compete UK companies.

"There is a thriving Computer Aided Manufacture software industry in the UK that is competitive and world class," said Todd. "The endgame of the software patent battle is that the entire European software industry will be sold and exported to companies in America and Silicon Valley who hold most of the patents and can use their lawyers effectively. Like the UK film industry, there would still a lot of good work and people here, but it would be entirely dominated and controlled from California."

Todd is not the only member of the audience who believes he has not had a satisfactory answer from the patent office. Various developers at the meeting said afterwards that the patent office had avoided their questions. Although, at least one concession has come out of the meeting with Lord Sainsbury agreeing to hold a workshop to discuss technical contributions.

But these concessions may have come too late as the EU Council may pass the new patent directive in a Fishery or Environment meeting before Christmas.

Talkback

>Since 2001 the Patent Office has frequently said that
>an invention can only be patented if it makes a >
>"technical contribution", such as the software which
>controls a physical object, rather than software which
>automates business methods. It also claims that the
>directive merely clarifies the status quo.

>But yesterday at the patent meeting, Julian Todd, a
>machine tool programmer, said that few UK machine >tool companies have taken out patents to date, but he
>is concerned that this may now be a costly necessity
>due to the directive.

It also was made clear in that meeting in response to many questions that "technical contribution" did not require any controls a physical object, and that it would be possible to patent novel ideas implemented in code on a desktop pc.

via Facebook 15 December, 2004 20:37
Reply

I think we should say to Tony blair, "See, we don't want software patents and we are not going to let you get away with it!"

via Facebook 16 December, 2004 10:16
Reply

Patents are a thorny issue that are slowly sneaking in to the UK through the back-door. It would be great if ZD, with its publishing might, would pick this up and make it a regular feature in the news, hopefully drawing more mainstream attention than The Register is able to.

I fear that the advocates, mainly large (US backed) business may win this fight. I also suspect it'll have far wider reaching implications than you suggest -- the CAM market is just one example.

The reason, in part, that these new patents are 'sneaking' in is down to the government and it's refusal to clearly define the term 'technical innovation'. Right now, it is leading us to believe that software will only be patentable if the patent also includes a tool of some sort. In reality, the technical innovation could be a reduced number of mouse movements or improved processing time.

Please, ZD, take the time to investigate the threat patents right down to the smallest detail, and educate the market.

Yours hopefully,

Adrian

via Facebook 17 December, 2004 12:53
Reply

Post your comment

In order to post a comment you need to be registered and logged in.

You can also log in with Facebook. Log in or create your ZDNet UK account below

  • Login

Will not be displayed with your comment

By signing up for this service, you indicate that you agree to our Terms and Conditions and have read and understood our Privacy Policy. Questions about membership? Find the answers in the Community FAQ

Get ZDNet UK's daily newsletter

Enter your email address to sign up

ZDNet UK Live

Roberto_Store

Now On Sale, Unlocked iPhone 4S / Galaxy Note In Factory Box. Roberto-Techie(UK) ”Now on Sales” Smartphone, Android,Tablets,Gadget &...

26 minutes ago by Roberto_Store on Samsung Galaxy S III lined up for sale
Paul Smyth

Is this classic FUD? One thing I would definitely have notice is a Mozilla threat to stop supporting GNU/Linux.

2 hours ago by Paul Smyth via Facebook on Firefox rapid release improves Fedora Linux
UnderINK

I agree with the previous commenter wholeheartedly. I couldn't say it better myself. This is very 'Big Brother'. And while I agree with protecting...

6 hours ago by UnderINK on European e-identity plan to be unveiled this month
Simon Bisson and Mary Branscombe

Nice to see that Turing's idea of a general purpose computer doing once-hardware-powered tasks in software is now universal ;-) Mary

12 hours ago by Simon Bisson and Mary Branscombe on Software with everything
Jason Burchell

seriously now. I've only bothered to read a small bit of the comments. do me and the rest of the world a favour. stop saying it does not work or...

16 hours ago by Jason Burchell via Facebook on Music industry negotiating over 24-bit downloads
Philip Charles Cohen

Read about it and weep, John Donahoe ... In addition to Visa’s V.me, there is now MasterCard’s PayPass digital wallet soon to arrive; another...

20 hours ago by Philip Charles Cohen via Facebook on PayPal takes phone-based payments to the high street
apexwm

Leslie Satenstein : Where have you ever seen Mozilla even mention this? Firefox is the most popular browser in the GNU/Linux OS, so I don't see...

21 hours ago by apexwm on Firefox rapid release improves Fedora Linux
songmaster

SHleG: Do you remember building a clockwork scorpion kit (I'm pretty sure I have a photo of it somewhere) — I think it was called something like...

22 hours ago by songmaster on Software with everything
Chris Wortman

Good I love Yahoo! Their search engine is getting better than Google as of late. I find more of what I want on the first page, and usually within...

23 hours ago by Chris Wortman via Facebook on Linux Mint 13 ramps up for KDE release
PatrickG

openhgs has made the point for Windows 8 multiple monitors without realising it! With Windows 7 you have to switch the mouse and so your focus...

1 day ago by PatrickG on Windows 8 could speed multi-monitor uptake
Leslie Satenstein

Mozilla has threatened to stop supporting Linux. I guess that UBUNTU is going with another browser. I indicated that if Mozilla stops supporting...

1 day ago by Leslie Satenstein via Facebook on Firefox rapid release improves Fedora Linux
Andy Bolstridge

Much as I abhor Microsoft's licensing practices, this is almost certainly down to purchasing IT equipment via 3rd party consultants - you get the...

1 day ago by Andy Bolstridge via Facebook on 6 million wasted licences and £1,200 PCs: welcome to government IT
Jack Schofield

@openhgs Windows users have had multiple desktops since Linus started writing Linux. They just haven't shipped as standard because not enough...

2 days ago by Jack Schofield on Windows 8 could speed multi-monitor uptake
Jack Schofield

@Phil at Cloud4 What, Microsoft gets £1,200 per PC and £1,622 per server? Gosh, I'm amazed....

2 days ago by Jack Schofield on 6 million wasted licences and £1,200 PCs: welcome to government IT
craigsc

You guys have no idea what is going on at Autonomy. Autonomy could have been a much more profitable organization. The sales operations at Autonomy...

2 days ago by craigsc on HP cuts 27,000 staff as Autonomy chief Lynch leaves
Moley

How does this impact on dual or multi booting? Seems to me to more or less prohibit this, from Windows 8 anyway. Will Grub 2 recognise Windows 8,...

2 days ago by Moley on Windows 8 start-up speed forces USB boot workaround
apexwm

I don't understand why there cannot be a slight pause during the boot process so the user can press a key. Many operating systems do this, even if...

2 days ago by apexwm on Windows 8 start-up speed forces USB boot workaround
Gavin Goodman

You can now buy the Xi3 modular computer in the UK at http://www.ocdistribution.com . This can be bought with the Tand3m software, pricing and...

2 days ago by Gavin Goodman on CES 2012: Xi3 microSERV3R
Phil at Cloud4

I agree: Mike Lynch can clearly build a business and manage strategy. I suspect the exit of Mike is more likely the end of a planned handover...

2 days ago by Phil at Cloud4 on HP cuts 27,000 staff as Autonomy chief Lynch leaves
Phil at Cloud4

This is unbeleivable government wastage with only one winner... Microsoft 1 - Tax payer Nil!

2 days ago by Phil at Cloud4 on 6 million wasted licences and £1,200 PCs: welcome to government IT