Advertisement
Promo

Office applications Toolkit

Story: Google: OOXML 'insufficient and unnecessary'

  • Previous comment

Posted by: Marbux (Friday 29 February 2008, 2:24 AM)

  • Reply

ODF and OOXML are standards in name only

Goldie, the problem really is more that both ODF and OOXML are signed, blank checks. Neither specify a minimum set of features that must be supported and both allow vendor- and application-specific extensions. These failings take both outside the definition of a standard, a specification for a standard product that specifies all product characteristics in mandatory form.

They also produce an interoperability nightmare for the same reasons. E.g., if you check Part 4 of the OOXML spec and grep for extLst, you will find 573 "future extension points" whose functionality is unspecified. But implementations that use those extension points are deemed conformant and documents that use them will validate against the schema.

Likewise, the ODF standard's "conformance" section 1.5 states:

Documents that conform to the OpenDocument specification MAY contain elements and
attributes not specified within the OpenDocument schema. Such elements and attributes must not be part of a namespace that is defined within this specification and are called foreign elements and attributes.

...

There are no rules regarding the elements and attributes that actually have to be supported by conforming applications, except that applications should not use foreign elements and attributes for features by the OpenDocument schema.

Not surprisingly, OpenOffice.org uses some 150 application specific-extensions and destroys all extensions created by other conformant applications other than paragraphs and text spans.

As was stated by the lead developer of the KDE KOffice word processor:

One thing I have always dreamed to be possible is that when I write a doc in KOffice I can then open it in OOo to use that one feature that's useful to me and then save it and continue in KOffice without loosing lots of data.

"Its still a dream, of course. Most features are lost on opening and saving it in OOo, but its a nice goal[.]

And if you check the OOXML conformance section (in Part 1), you get a series of excuses for not having any conformance requirements at all. Validation in OOXML is a two-step process, with elements and attributes specified by the schema validated by one method and extensions validated by another. The latter step is near worthless, since it can only check whether specified extension points have been used and whether "compatibility markup" is valid. Because extensions are by definition unspecified, the validity of the extensions can not be confirmed; there is no adequate specification/schema against which they could be validated.

Yet ISO/IEC JTC 1 Directives require that:

Standards designed to facilitate interoperability need to specify clearly and unambiguously the conformity requirements that are essential to achieve the interoperability. Complexity and the number of options should be kept to a minimum and the implementability of the standards should be demonstrable.

Both ODF and OOXML flunk that test badly. Their interoperable implementation neither has nor can be demonstrated. Both are designed for the waging of feature wars, not for interoperability. Both attempt to legitimize market-leading companies embracing and extending their own formats. They are standards in name only. What we are watching is a contest to decide which big vendor formats will be allowed to undeservedly claim the title of "international standard."

ODF wins a point because it is not patent encumbered, whereas the OOXML IPR documents are RAND-Z, requiring a negotiated patent license from Microsoft. But openness is pretty irrelevant without interoperability and it is an utter myth that an open format is necessarily interoperable. Indeed, because both ODF and OOXML allow vendor-specific extensions, one might observe that neither is an open format. Both permit extensions whose fu

Private message disabled

Marbux

Marbux
n/a
Member since: February 2008

Site Activity Rating:

1

 


  • Previous comment

  • Reply to this comment
  • Return to story
  • Report this as offensive


Full Talkback thread

Story: Google: OOXML 'insufficient and unnecessary'

  1. Very nice Albert lars
  2. Microsoft double-tongued Anonymous123
  3. ODF useless for Microsoft needs Albert
  4. OOXML is fully open Albert
  5. Sorry, the comment was cut short. Here'... garyedwards
  6. Reasons for lack of interoperbility in ODF Albert
  7. ODF, The Big Picture Goldie Simmons
  8. Breaking the Web garyedwards
  9. Google has invested in competing format Albert
  10. Document standards 2000355890
  11. Questioning Google’s objectiveness harpless
  12. Microsoft's Argument is Ridiculous Goldie Simmons
  13. insufficient and unnecessary standard, designed pu... ator1940
  14. Interoperability and the binary ODF conversion di... garyedwards
  15. A bit of background... Anonymous123
  16. Microsoft moves forward with OOXML SDK Karen Friar ZD
  17. The rest of the text in the previous tal... lars
  18. Google motivation Albert
  19. Which OOXML features in particular can't... Chris Rankin
  20. XML in spirit isn't going to be as effic... Anonymous123
  21. But does even Microsoft Office use OOXML... Chris Rankin
  22. Thanks Gary, very informative Goldie Simmons
  23. Durusau's proposal is preposterous Marbux
  24. A very Interesting Take Moley
  25. Features not in ODF Albert
  26. OOXML performance explained Albert
  27. Office and OOXML David Meyer ZD
  28. MS Office 2007 does fully support O... Albert
  29. ISO Credibility garyedwards
  30. Thank you for an intelligent r... Anonymous123
  31. Of course ODF isn't backwards... Chris Rankin
  32. Then why add "read"... Chris Rankin
  33. 00o writes compliant files Goldie Simmons
  34. You are contradicting Rupert G... Chris Rankin
  35. Terse markup for speed -- NOT Marbux
  36. Tail end of previous comment garyedwards
  37. Cut to the chase garyedwards
  38. ODF also has backwards compati... Albert
  39. MS influencing ODF development... Albert
  40. No, OOo is not fully complient... Albert
  41. MS Office 2007 files fully val... Albert
  42. That's OK, I contradict R... Rupert Goodwins ZD
  43. Widespread support for OOXML a... Albert
  44. Actually OOXML is not really t... Albert
  45. Actually MS Office 2007 compli... Albert
  46. Actually, you're making all th... Chris Rankin
  47. It's a question of greate... Chris Rankin
  48. Questions for the community Goldie Simmons
  49. Do tell me more, Albert Marbux
  50. Albert, give me a single examp... Marbux
  51. Open Standards Moley
  52. If you plan for incompatiblity... Albert
  53. Believe is in the prove Albert
  54. ODF and OOXML are standards in... Marbux
  55. explaination Albert
  56. ODF better readable but less g... Albert
  57. Interoperability Albert
  58. OOXML is Open Albert
  59. Then why does the same spreads... Marbux
  60. Extensions are bugs, not featu... Marbux
  61. OOXML interop is abysmal Marbux
  62. Extensions to ODF realistic ? Albert
  63. Undocumented eXtensions and St... garyedwards
  64. Not 1,500 extensions Marbux
  65. You've got to be kidding,... Marbux

Back to: Google: OOXML 'insufficient and unnecessary'


Video icon

Video

Discussions

CA CA

Clouds..

Tuesday 10 November 2009, 2:54 AM

4 comments
CA CA

Murdoch versus the Net? Game on.

Monday 9 November 2009, 10:02 PM

3 comments
CA CA

Windows 7 pricing all over the shop..a...

Monday 9 November 2009, 9:39 PM

7 comments

Vista Upgrade Blog

INIFiles: Getting those legacy files i...

Handling INI files can be a little tricky these days when you have to consider new security restrictions, virtualized environment restrictions (App-V and Citrix) and legacy applications... More

Post a comment

Best Penis Enlargement Pills

Best Penis Enlargement Pills "What You Need To Know About Penis Enlargement Pills" Penis enlargement pills and other herbal supplements, based on true natural ingredients,... More

Post a comment

Windows 7 pricing all over the shop..a...

I really think Microsoft have made a mess of Windows 7 pricing. They got the product right, yet there initial pricing of at around £44.95 for the full version of Windows 7 Home Premium... More

7 comments


Skip Sub Navigation Links to CNET Brand Links

Help

Become part of the ZDNet community.

Newsletters