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Story: Google: OOXML 'insufficient and unnecessary'

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Posted by: Marbux (Friday 29 February 2008, 6:28 PM)

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Extensions are bugs, not features

Albert said: "By using the namespace prefixes it also improves things like XML validation and extensibility compared to ODF."

Let's begin by taking extensibility off the table. A standard that allows vendor-specific extensions to be conformant is a standard in name only. A lawful international standard or technical regulation identifies a product, specifies all product characteristics only in mandatory terms, and requires that only products that match those characteristics shall be deemed conformant. See e.g., World Trade Organization Appellate Body decision in WTDS 135 EC - Asbestos (March 12, 2001), para. 66-70.

Extensions fall outside the definition of a standard. They may be great for folks who want to play feature war games with their own formats, but they are the antithesis of a standard. Standards are about taking the feature war out of the competition game by specifying a standard product, allowing competition based on efficiencies in production expense and on customer service. The standard product we are concerned with here are competing sets of file formats.

Extensions make software goods non-substitutable and create interop nightmares. Short story, if you want embrace and extend a standard, forget about claiming conformance. Both ODF and OOXML violate the law governing international standards because they allow vendors to claim conformance despite vendor-specific extensions.

Second, validation is next to useless in both ODF and OOXML because of the extension problem. In ODF, validation occurs after stripping all extensions from the file. In OOXML, validation is a two-stage process in which the markup specified in the schema is validated and then a second step that "validates" the extension's compatibility markup and checks to see that they use defined extension points. But that stage is virtually worthless because there is by definition no schema against which extensions' functionality could be validated.

In both ODF and OOXML, what is being validated is only part of the real-world file; the validation process itself is therefore invalid. See e.g., Validation - Wikipedia. ("Validation against an incomplete or insufficient set of criteria can lead to a state of "validated" where "validated" does not confer the confidence that the term intends. Thus validation of the validation criteria is an important aspect that is often overlooked.")

Third, I've already discussed the fact that terseness in markup is a negligible factor at best. You can argue a contrary position until the cows come home and it will not make it true. As I've already pointed out, a million-row ODF spreadsheet loads faster in Excel equipped with the da Vinci plug-in than an equivalent OOXML spreadsheet is loaded by Excel equipped with the OOXML plug-in. There are other factors involved that have far more dramatic effect on loading speed.

I intend to stop arguing this processing speed issue with you. You are obviously more concerned with defending an indefensible position than you are with having a frank discussion. I've got better things to do, like actually getting something done about interoperability issues.

--Buck ("Marbux") Martin
Universal Interoperability Council

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Marbux

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Full Talkback thread

Story: Google: OOXML 'insufficient and unnecessary'

  1. ODF useless for Microsoft needs Albert
  2. Reasons for lack of interoperbility in ODF Albert
  3. Google has invested in competing format Albert
  4. Document standards 2000355890
  5. Questioning Google’s objectiveness harpless
  6. Microsoft's Argument is Ridiculous Goldie Simmons
  7. insufficient and unnecessary standard, designed pu... ator1940
  8. Interoperability and the binary ODF conversion di... garyedwards
  9. A bit of background... Anonymous123
  10. Microsoft moves forward with OOXML SDK Karen Friar ZD
  11. Very nice Albert lars
  12. Microsoft double-tongued Anonymous123
  13. OOXML is fully open Albert
  14. Sorry, the comment was cut short. Here'... garyedwards
  15. ODF, The Big Picture Goldie Simmons
  16. Breaking the Web garyedwards
  17. Google motivation Albert
  18. XML in spirit isn't going to be as effic... Anonymous123
  19. The rest of the text in the previous tal... lars
  20. Which OOXML features in particular can't... Chris Rankin
  21. But does even Microsoft Office use OOXML... Chris Rankin
  22. Thanks Gary, very informative Goldie Simmons
  23. Durusau's proposal is preposterous Marbux
  24. A very Interesting Take Moley
  25. MS Office 2007 does fully support O... Albert
  26. Features not in ODF Albert
  27. OOXML performance explained Albert
  28. Office and OOXML David Meyer ZD
  29. ISO Credibility garyedwards
  30. You are contradicting Rupert G... Chris Rankin
  31. Terse markup for speed -- NOT Marbux
  32. Cut to the chase garyedwards
  33. Thank you for an intelligent r... Anonymous123
  34. Of course ODF isn't backwards... Chris Rankin
  35. Then why add "read"... Chris Rankin
  36. 00o writes compliant files Goldie Simmons
  37. Tail end of previous comment garyedwards
  38. That's OK, I contradict R... Rupert Goodwins ZD
  39. Widespread support for OOXML a... Albert
  40. ODF also has backwards compati... Albert
  41. MS influencing ODF development... Albert
  42. No, OOo is not fully complient... Albert
  43. MS Office 2007 files fully val... Albert
  44. Actually OOXML is not really t... Albert
  45. It's a question of greate... Chris Rankin
  46. Albert, give me a single examp... Marbux
  47. Actually MS Office 2007 compli... Albert
  48. Actually, you're making all th... Chris Rankin
  49. Questions for the community Goldie Simmons
  50. Do tell me more, Albert Marbux
  51. Open Standards Moley
  52. If you plan for incompatiblity... Albert
  53. Believe is in the prove Albert
  54. ODF and OOXML are standards in... Marbux
  55. explaination Albert
  56. ODF better readable but less g... Albert
  57. Interoperability Albert
  58. OOXML is Open Albert
  59. Then why does the same spreads... Marbux
  60. Extensions are bugs, not featu... Marbux
  61. OOXML interop is abysmal Marbux
  62. Extensions to ODF realistic ? Albert
  63. Not 1,500 extensions Marbux
  64. You've got to be kidding,... Marbux
  65. Undocumented eXtensions and St... garyedwards

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